04-07-2024, 01:17 AM
I honestly don't find this appealing at all, tools are good as they are imo. It would quite frankly annoy me if this were to be implemented.
So we already have higher quality hammers and then we'd have a Q255 Vulcium hammer be better than a Q255 Metal hammer on top of that. (I mean yeah it is like that already for knifes and armor, which makes sense for armor, not sure about knifes, yeah maybe they can be sharper or whatever). I know you didn't mean quality of the hammer would matter for the production processes, but just the material.
It would mean just getting all tools to maximise prodction would not be enough, there'd need to be vulcium hammers too.
Also does it really make sense that a vulcium hammer would speed up a process significantly as compared to a metal hammer? That it'd be more durable, yes. But that would matter mostly to the player, as production would get newly produced hammers all the time anyway if one breaks. For all we know it might already be the case for hammers of different quality, but we wouldn't know. Did any of you ever track how many hammers get consumed per hour? I know I didn't.
But honestly it would just add another layer. This seems like complexity just for the sake of complexity.
Also as far as technology goes, you have to get things in a certain sequence anyway. You can't get rocket engines before metal and you can't get rocket drive modules before you have rocket engines.
You basically already need goods and certain tools to unlock those tiers. It feels organic and right to me. Adding the requirement of the tool being made from another material, dunno. Maybe you'd need a magmium hammer to get vulcium, because the metal one would break. But a magmium tool for harvesting cryozine? Why would that perform better than a metal one? I can't really think of many areas where it would make sense other than durability, which is not really relevant for production due to infinite resources and likely only marginal effects.
If anything I'd just like the return of research requiring one item e.g. 1 radioactives for fuel rods. Just to have research and to give universities a fuction again. Because how does your civilisation know that radioactives can give you power if your researchers never studied it? just don't make it a requirement to do research for every tech level as it was at some point, that was just annoying, iirc if u have e.g. Q143 radioactives you'd only do research for Q143 rods and when you found Q195 Radioactives, you'd have to do the research again to be able to make Q195 rods. That was plain stupid. It is not because we find better quality uranium that we need to relearn how to enrich uranium.
Idk, I'd just prefer this to not be implemented. I'd rather not have to rewrite the new player guide :D
At AndreyKL: Quality having consequences is already a thing: lower Q ammo/lenses causes less damage if I'm not mistaken. Or at least I know lower Q weapons do less damage. Lower Q food gives less nutrition. (for the player dunno about civs, nrver bothered to monitor this, just like hammer consumption).
I wouldn't want it to extent to prodcution facilities. I mean lower resources qualiy already creates lower quality goods. Making it slower too just because the stone to build the structure is lower quality doesn't make sense imo. It are the humans inside the building doing the process. Only thing that 'maybe) could affect is building HP. But there is already a difference in hp based on material. Don't think Q plays role atm. I wouldn't mind, as it does make sense that stronger stone creates stronger buildings, but dunno if it is necessary. Then youd need to ferry Q255 stone to all colonies. Or make all buildings out of Q255 Adamantine
"4. Instead of adding tiers make certain technologies require higher quality. Like: you can't make a particle collector from resources less than Q100 (may be not literally 'can't', but practically, like a Q70 collector won't be usable "
This actually used to be the case. Shields used to require TL4, transporters required TL7, warp drive TL24. I wouldn't mind this coming back, but it felt a bit of an artificial boundary. Right now if it is a bit worse, it performs a bit worse (well for some things) Before if it was a bit worse, it could not be made at all: If your Antiflux was Q183 instead of Q184 (TL24) required for warpdrives, it was useless. Idk if that makes sense. But it could be made that lower Q warpdrive also influence warp factor as opposed to just the capacitor. Or that they use more energy, making it very hard to make a capacitor large enough to achieve warp 1 at lower qualities. It would however just inflate the size of ships required for warp 1 and have you wait a bit longer for it to be built. Not sure about this one.
Just posting my thoughts,. My vote is against new tools. Just in favor of one time research per tech and nothing else. Can be put in some nice visual research tree, or just the 'this tech requires that tech' that we had before. But formalised resource tiers and adding tools? No thanks. Seems like unnecessarily complicating things.
Anyway I'm tired and dunno if any of my writings make sense. Might be contradicting myself.
So we already have higher quality hammers and then we'd have a Q255 Vulcium hammer be better than a Q255 Metal hammer on top of that. (I mean yeah it is like that already for knifes and armor, which makes sense for armor, not sure about knifes, yeah maybe they can be sharper or whatever). I know you didn't mean quality of the hammer would matter for the production processes, but just the material.
It would mean just getting all tools to maximise prodction would not be enough, there'd need to be vulcium hammers too.
Also does it really make sense that a vulcium hammer would speed up a process significantly as compared to a metal hammer? That it'd be more durable, yes. But that would matter mostly to the player, as production would get newly produced hammers all the time anyway if one breaks. For all we know it might already be the case for hammers of different quality, but we wouldn't know. Did any of you ever track how many hammers get consumed per hour? I know I didn't.
But honestly it would just add another layer. This seems like complexity just for the sake of complexity.
Also as far as technology goes, you have to get things in a certain sequence anyway. You can't get rocket engines before metal and you can't get rocket drive modules before you have rocket engines.
You basically already need goods and certain tools to unlock those tiers. It feels organic and right to me. Adding the requirement of the tool being made from another material, dunno. Maybe you'd need a magmium hammer to get vulcium, because the metal one would break. But a magmium tool for harvesting cryozine? Why would that perform better than a metal one? I can't really think of many areas where it would make sense other than durability, which is not really relevant for production due to infinite resources and likely only marginal effects.
If anything I'd just like the return of research requiring one item e.g. 1 radioactives for fuel rods. Just to have research and to give universities a fuction again. Because how does your civilisation know that radioactives can give you power if your researchers never studied it? just don't make it a requirement to do research for every tech level as it was at some point, that was just annoying, iirc if u have e.g. Q143 radioactives you'd only do research for Q143 rods and when you found Q195 Radioactives, you'd have to do the research again to be able to make Q195 rods. That was plain stupid. It is not because we find better quality uranium that we need to relearn how to enrich uranium.
Idk, I'd just prefer this to not be implemented. I'd rather not have to rewrite the new player guide :D
At AndreyKL: Quality having consequences is already a thing: lower Q ammo/lenses causes less damage if I'm not mistaken. Or at least I know lower Q weapons do less damage. Lower Q food gives less nutrition. (for the player dunno about civs, nrver bothered to monitor this, just like hammer consumption).
I wouldn't want it to extent to prodcution facilities. I mean lower resources qualiy already creates lower quality goods. Making it slower too just because the stone to build the structure is lower quality doesn't make sense imo. It are the humans inside the building doing the process. Only thing that 'maybe) could affect is building HP. But there is already a difference in hp based on material. Don't think Q plays role atm. I wouldn't mind, as it does make sense that stronger stone creates stronger buildings, but dunno if it is necessary. Then youd need to ferry Q255 stone to all colonies. Or make all buildings out of Q255 Adamantine
"4. Instead of adding tiers make certain technologies require higher quality. Like: you can't make a particle collector from resources less than Q100 (may be not literally 'can't', but practically, like a Q70 collector won't be usable "
This actually used to be the case. Shields used to require TL4, transporters required TL7, warp drive TL24. I wouldn't mind this coming back, but it felt a bit of an artificial boundary. Right now if it is a bit worse, it performs a bit worse (well for some things) Before if it was a bit worse, it could not be made at all: If your Antiflux was Q183 instead of Q184 (TL24) required for warpdrives, it was useless. Idk if that makes sense. But it could be made that lower Q warpdrive also influence warp factor as opposed to just the capacitor. Or that they use more energy, making it very hard to make a capacitor large enough to achieve warp 1 at lower qualities. It would however just inflate the size of ships required for warp 1 and have you wait a bit longer for it to be built. Not sure about this one.
Just posting my thoughts,. My vote is against new tools. Just in favor of one time research per tech and nothing else. Can be put in some nice visual research tree, or just the 'this tech requires that tech' that we had before. But formalised resource tiers and adding tools? No thanks. Seems like unnecessarily complicating things.
Anyway I'm tired and dunno if any of my writings make sense. Might be contradicting myself.